profanity and sacrilige

Discuss word origins and meanings.

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Topic » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:07 am

I've just found this site and it's amazingly "lively" so it is with some caution that I dare ask...
A while back we all were chatting and the whole business of swearing came up, and then it got wider and wilder and nobody could really work out what the difference was. What I mean to say is that you can speak profanity and you can speak sacrilige. What the hell's the difference! Isn't it all swearing? I'm sure that it is, but I want to know how to seperate it all out. Can you people help?
Submitted by Nathon De Ville (Cape Town - South Africa)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Topic imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:34 am

Semantically, swearing is limited to utterances, and needs to be of a "strong", or oathlike nature. Sacrilege, curiously is relatively mild when compared to 'profane'( which is a debasement of someone's principle or religion) because one needs only to not adhere to that principle to be sacrilegious. Where thease descriptions overlap will have to just be problematic, and the individual must decide.
2k4dec16thu15:30,lneil

Reply from Louis Bussey (Boise - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:01 am

It's debated that swearing originates from when people actually 'swore' an oath in the middle ages. The trouble was, they started doing it all the time, for any reason.

For example: 'By Our Lady have a safe journey', or even, ' By Our Lady pass me that bag of French fries.'

Bloody transliterated in the 'Bloody' swear word we have today (say by our lady fast a few times), and is nothing to do with that sticky, ketchup-like stuff.

Sacrilege is taking the Lord's name in vain e.g. 'For Christ's sake'. and profanity is the same.

There is another heading, that I think you may have confused with profanity, and that's vulgarity.

Sorry I can't be more precise with this, maybe Ken can elaborate?
Reply from Leighton Harris (Cambridge - England)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:27 am

Nathon, Sacrilege and profanity needs no swearing to be. If you must utter one or the other then if it debases, it is more than just sacrilegious and graduates to profanity. If you need instructions more complicated than that, consult further with Dale.
2k4dec16thr20:30,lneil

Reply from Louis Bussey (Boise - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:41 am

Thanks Leighton Harris. What you said was interesting so thank you, but does that mean there is no difference between profanity and sacrilege? Are they the same thing, taking God's name in vain, or using it in swearing? If they mean the same, why is there two different words for it!
Reply from Nathon De Ville (Cape Town - South Africa)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:54 am

sac·ri·lege ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skr-lj)
n.
Desecration, profanation, misuse, or theft of something sacred.
pro·fan·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fn-t, pr-)
n. pl. pro·fan·i·ties
The condition or quality of being profane.

Abusive, vulgar, or irreverent language.
The use of such language.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


profanity

n : vulgar or irreverent speech or action

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin sacrilegium, from sacrilegus, one who steals sacred things : sacer, sacred; see sacred + legere, to gather; see leg- in Indo-European Roots.]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

sacrilege

n : blasphemous behavior; the act of depriving something of its sacred character; "desecration of the Holy Sabbath" [syn: profanation, desecration, blasphemy]

It looks to me like profanity is anything vulgar. Sacrilege, which can be profane, would specifically deal with something religious.

Hope this helps.

JF 12/17/2004
Reply from Jeff Freeman (Orlando, FL - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:07 am

Leighton,
I always thought that bloody refered to Christ's blood. I'd never heard your explanation before.

JF 12/17/2004
Reply from Jeff Freeman (Orlando, FL - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:21 am

Thank you Jeff. I appreciate the time you must have spent looking for all this stuff and copying it, but I still would like somebody to explain to me what the difference is between sacred and profane. All these quotes are great, but if YOU can'tunderstand them enough to tell me the difference, how the hell can I wade throught this stuff and work it out?
Can you explain what you are trying to say in "It looks to me like profanity is anything vulgar. Sacrilege, which can be profane, would specifically deal with something religious.'? Try to make it simple, please.
Reply from Nathon De Ville (Cape Town - South Africa)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:34 am

Nathon,

"I took a sh*t" = profane
"I took a sh*t" on Jesus = sacrilege

Clear enough?

JF 12/17/2004
Reply from Jeff Freeman (Orlando, FL - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:47 am

So is 'I took a bl**dy sh*t on J*sus' swearing, profanity or sacrilegious?
Or all of the above?
It would certainly get me kicked out of Sunday school!

Reply from Leighton Harris (Cambridge - England)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:41 am

Well, I was looking forward to getting some help in here, but I better go look somewhere else.
You've managed to tell me about swearing. Thanks. But then Leighton Harris says that sacrilige is taking the lords name in vain and this is the same as profanity, and then Jeff Freeman says that "i took a shit" is profane.
Thanks for your time anyway guys.
Reply from Nathon De Ville (Cape Town - South Africa)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:54 am

Jeff, I am flattered; Nathon; it is possible we misconstrue your question. Jeff's example below seems perfectly ok

"I took a sh*t" = profane

"I took a sh*t" on Jesus = sacrilege

Although sacriledge doesn't necessarily contain profanity. In the example above it obviously does; but it would be just as sacreligious (sp?) to say "I defecated upon Jesus"

In the way 99 per cent of us use it, "profanity" has no connection at all with religion

So if you can further clarify the question, more help is surely forthcoming


Reply from dale hileman (Apple Valley, CA - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:07 pm

wow, and I thought it was a pretty clear explanation...

JF 12/19/2004
Reply from Jeff Freeman (Orlando, FL - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:21 pm

An then there is the question of politically incorrect. Is calling a older person an "old grouch" a vulgarity?

Adam Crow, Alabama
Reply from ( - )
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

profanity and sacrilige

Post by Archived Reply » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:34 pm

Naton: Sorry if I misconstrued your thread. It appeared you were asking the difference between profanity and sacrilige
Reply from dale hileman (Apple Valley, CA - U.S.A.)
ACCESS_POST_ACTIONS
Signature: Reply imported and archived

Post Reply