lamp [the verb] and lights

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lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by SteveH » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:25 pm

The expression to 'lamp' someone, meaning to hit them, seems to be gaining in popularity. I heard it recently on the BBC and it started me wondering, does it derive from the threat to punch someone's lights out? I know that 'lights' could be a butcher's word for lungs, but to punch someone's lungs out doesn't sound right.

So, would anyone care to speculate where these curious expressions originated?

SteveH
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by tony h » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:11 pm

Lights are also eyes. Does it actually mean "punch in the face/eyes" as opposed to anywhere else?
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Signature: tony

I'm puzzled therefore I think.

Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by Ken Greenwald » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:11 pm

Steve, The slang verb LAMP with the meaning you describe is actually not new and has been around since the 1800s, although it seems to have experienced a revival in the mid-late 20th century. The origin is not certain, but a possible etymology that some sources provided is given below.

THE NEW PARTRIDGE DICTIONARY OF SLANG AND UNCONVENTIONAL ENGLISH edited by Dazell and Victor (2006)

LAMP To hit, to beat, U.K., 1954 [[see my earlier quotes below]]
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A DICTIONARY OF SLANG AND UNCONVENTIONAL ENGLISH (8th edition, 2002) by Eric Partridge (edited by Paul Beale)

LAMP verb: To lamp a bloke is to attack him with your bunch of fives [fists] or knives or razors. To job ‘im means the same thing.
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CASSELL’S DICTIONARY OF SLANG

LAMP verb: 1) [early 19th century and still in use]: To beat, to strike, to thrash. [[? verb lam]]

LAM (also LAMB, LAMME) verb 1) [late 16th century and still in use]: To beat or strike; thus lamming, a beating; also in figurative use. 2) [mid-late 19th century] (U.S.): To defeat in a fight. [linked to Old Norse lemja, to lame, as a result of a beating.
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OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY

LAMP verb dialect (chiefly northern) and slang [Of uncertain origin; perhaps alteration of the verb lam. Cf. Old Norse lemja (past tense lamoa), literally ‘to lame’ (= Old English lemian, from lama lame), but chiefly used with reference to beating.]

LAM transitive verb: To beat soundly; to thrash; to ‘whack’. Now colloquial or vulgar.
<1808 in An Etymological Dictionary of the Scottish Language by Jamieson>

<1895 “I'll LAMP his hide when I catch him.”—Tom Brown's Black Country Annual (E.D.D.) by T. Pinnock>

<1902 “Ye thought ye wad LAMP us, did ye? I was fairly lampet at that game.”—in English Dialect Dictionary, III. page 513/2>

<1969 “LAMP it, kick it (e.g., a football) hard.”—Talk of My Town by D. Griffiths, page 21>

<1985 “LAMP that oot the windy.”—Patter by M. Munro, page 42>

<1996 “Any photographer who tries to take a picture will get LAMPED in the mouth.”—The Mirror (London), 31 August>

<1999 “Sometimes even now they tittered to themselves as to how they'd come running in blubbering after some kid had LAMPED them and how their mom had pushed them back outside with the words, ‘Now goo and fight them and if y'come back blartin I'll give y'summat to really blart about!’”—Birmingham Evening Mail (England), 15 May>

<2000 “Whoever said you weren’t sexy, Elspeth? Tell me, I’ll LAMP him one.”—Boiling a Frog by C. Brookmyre, page 24>

<2001 “I've been teased and called Wheelie but I can look after myself. If someone said something I'd LAMP them.”—The Mirror (London), 9 October>

<2003 “I will LAMP any idiot who says we’re not rock’n’roll.”—X-Ray, April>

<2005 “. . . and if some stranger had sworn at my Mum like he does in front of those hard-working dinner ladies, my Dad would have LAMPED him.”—The People (London), 27 February>

<2008 “His character Trevor [[in TV show EastEnders]] terrorised and even raped his wife Little Mo who, eventually, LAMPED him with an iron in one of the soap's most memorable moments, watched by 17million viewers.”—Daily Record (Glasgow, Scotland), 13 June>
(quotes from Oxford English Dictionary, and archived sources)

Note: The slang verb LAMP has other meanings, one of which (originally U.S., 1916) is to see, look at, to assess visually, recognize, watch. This meaning, which is now considered slang, most likely derives from the plural noun LAMPS meaning the eyes, which was originally and formerly poetical and first used by Shakespeare in 1590 in his Comedy of Errors. And, as tony h mentioned above, LIGHTS (dating from the early 19th century and still in use) also is a synonym for the eyes or ‘lamps.’
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Ken G – July 25, 2008
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by SteveH » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:16 am

So to lamp someone has a likely Norse derivation? Thanks Ken for the explanation. I think that even today its usage is more common in the north of England, reflecting no doubt the linguistic heritage of Scandinavian settlers that continues even to this day.

The origins of the two terms seem therefore to be separate. To knock someone's lights out perhaps means to render them unconscious, thereby turning out the lights - possibly the lights in their eyes as Tony implies?

Steve
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by Shelley » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:48 pm

What about shining lights in their eyes, as in "lamping" rabbits? From The Book of Dave, by Will Self:
. . . ‘vare [rabbits are] a bludde menniss, vay ar, looki ve way awl viss bank eer iz riddulled wiv vare burros – vayl av ve ole pitch subsydin if we doan keep em dahn. U shud cumaht lampin wiv me wun nyt – gimme an and.
That night, the guys go out in the pick-up truck and shine lights into the rabbits' faces, causing them to freeze in their tracks, making them easy targets for shooting.
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by SteveH » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:05 pm

... and, in Australia, shooting kangaroos at night using the same method.

SteveH
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Re: lamp and lights

Post by trolley » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:49 pm

Same thing with deer and elk. Around here it's called "pit-lamping". Illegal and unethical.
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by p. g. cox » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:40 am

I have also heard that in Kenya it was common practice to hunt lions at night by shining a light at them. The hunter would then shoot them between the eyes that reflected the light. This went on for some time until the lions got smart and began moving around in pairs with one eye shut.
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Re: lamp [the verb] and lights

Post by Ken Greenwald » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:18 am

I think I’ve got it. Lamping rabbits, same thing for kangaroos, elk, ‘lions’ (Peter, that was good), . . . deer. Hmm! Deer in the headlights! . . . the deer-in-the-headlights stare, e.g. our Fearless Leader and Decider’s look, or perhaps more than a look, particularly but not exclusively, when fielding an unscripted question. But it’s almost over –171 days left and counting. (<:) On the other hand, not too little time to inflict yet more damage. (>:)
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Ken – August 1, 2008
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