guys and dolls

allegro · Post by **allegro** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:57 pm

What is the origin of the words "guys and dolls" meaning men and women. Did Damon Runyon originate the term in his story --later to become a musical comedy-- or did Runyon adopt the words from an earlier source? Did "guys" possibly have its origins in French?

allegro · Post by **allegro** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:32 pm

Can answer part of this myself after further research. "Guy" may well have originated in 1605 and referred to Guy Fawkes who with others formulated the Gunpowder plot to blow up Parliament. children made efficies of Fawkes after the plot was foiled and used them to beg money saying " A penny for the guy"

Ken Greenwald · Post by **Ken Greenwald** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:00 am

Martin, If you had used the site’s search function you would have found more than you ever wanted to know about guy. And if use the suggested dictionaries we offer over there on the left side of the page you’ll learn about as much about DOLL as there is to know except that it first appeared in print, in the sense you are interested in, in the mid-1800s.

<1840 “Oh, she was a rael [sic] DOLL! she was a dandy, that’s a fact.”—‘Spirit of the Times,’ 2 November, page 447>

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Ken G – July 1, 2006

allegro · Post by **allegro** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:06 pm

Thanks Ken. I'm new to the site and haven't explored it thoroughly. Where are the dictionaries and do the possibly include the OED?

haro · Post by **haro** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:39 am

Martin, please have a look at this: http://www.wordwizard.com/indexresources.htm . You can reach it from the Wordwizard Home page, but not from the Clubhouse.