succotash

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succotash

Post by Nicolas Le Thierry » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:13 pm

Meaning, origin and -- is it worth trying? And has it anything "Scottish" (though it is not very likely)?
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succotash

Post by butterfingersbeck » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:50 pm

It is derived from a Native American language (not certain which) and is a Native American dish using indigenous ingredients. Recipes vary, but it tends to be a stew or soup containing sweetcorn, lima or butter beans and often cream. Sounds good to me...
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Signature: Simon Beck
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"Communication is everything"

succotash

Post by Ken Greenwald » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:27 pm

Nicolas, Simon is right but today succotash takes several forms. The first succotash consisting of corn and beans cooked in bear grease was made by American Indians who, incidentally, grew the corn and beans together with the cornstalks serving as bean poles. Colonists used the word in the early 18th century (first recorded in 1751) and it apparently derives from the Narragnanset Indian (a North American tribe of the Algonquian family formerly located in Rhode Island) and the Massachuset Indian (a tribe formerly located in Massachusetts) languages.

Today succotash can be 1) a dish consisting of green maize (corn) and beans boiled together. 2) A stew consisting of kernels of corn, lima beans, and tomatoes. 3) a cooked dish of kernels of corn mixed with shell beans, especially lima beans, and, often, with green and sweet red peppers.

There is not precise agreement on what the original Indian word was or exactly what it meant, but here is sampling:

misickqatash – an ear of corn

misickquatash/msíckquatash – boiled kernels of corn

manusqussedash – beans

msekwatas – something broken into pieces (as corn form cob) or in Natick (Algonquian language of the Massachuset people) msekutahas

As an aside, I recall that one of the favorite exclamations of the Looney Tunes cartoon character Sylvester the cat (1945) was sufferin’ succotash!!!! (voice of Mel Blanc). I don’t know if that expression had a life before Sylvester was created, but I doubt it. In any case it has become a mild oath, for some, for the more blasphemous expletive of surprise, mild anger, annoyance, or disappointment suffering Christ or suffering savior. [h]
<1751 “Mo dined with us upon SUCKATASH and Ham.”—Diary by J. MacSparran, 4 August (1899) page 47>

<1778 “This [dish] is composed of their unripe corn . . . and beans in the same state, boiled together with bears flesh. They call this food SUCCATOSH.”— Travels through the Interior Parts of North Americaby J. Carver, vi. page 263>

<1792 “Their samp and homony, . . . their nokehike . . . their SUKATASH, which is a mixture of corn and beans boiled, are much used.”—History of New Hampshire by J. Belknap, III. page 93>
[/h](Listening to America by Flexner, Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology, Facts on File Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins, Merriam-Webster’s and Random House Unabridged Dictionaries, American Heritage Dictionary)
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succotash

Post by kagriffy » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:24 pm

Actually, Ken, Sylvester's exclamation was "Thufferin' thuccotash"! Both Sylvester and Elmer Fudd had serious speech impediments. In today's more enlightened/sensitive age, Warner Brothers would never get by with making fun of lisping felines and "wascally wabbits"! *G*
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succotash

Post by Edwin Ashworth » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:12 pm

Or Algonquins of Rhode Island.
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succotash

Post by Ken Greenwald » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:19 pm

Allen, Now you’ve went and made me prejudiced! (<:)

Ken
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succotash

Post by Wizard of Oz » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:48 am

kagriffy and Ken .. another, and perhaps more enlightened, way of looking at it is that people with speech impediments DO exist in our world and are a part of the colourful fabric of the people who you meet when you are walking down the street .. and therefore deserve, have a right (?), to be represented in the characters portrayed via our entertainment mediums, in this case cartoons .. the puritanical PC lobby gives a very distorted picture of what society is about and doesn't help in the least to educate our children into the realities of the wider world and what they WILL encounter .. one of Australia's all-time great sport commentators was "Won" Casey who managed to rise to the top of his profession without ever having pronounced an /r/ in his life .. I believe it helps children to understand that these people are "normal" .. well as normal as any cartoon character can be ..
WoZ of Aus 05/01/05
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succotash

Post by Nicolas Le Thierry » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:51 am

Thank you all for your anthwerth.
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