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from a mistake

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:35 pm
by navi
1) Our team scored a goal from a mistake.
2) Our team got a goal from a mistake.

Context: Football/soccer

Our opponents made a mistake and as a result we managed to score a goal.

Which of the sentences '1' and '2' are grammatical, meaningful and can match the meaning given above?
I guess in '1' and '2' it is not really clear who made the mistake, and given the nature of the game, and the role luck plays in it, it is possible that we made a mistake, got luck and scored a goal as a result.

Gratefully,
Navi

Re: from a mistake

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:07 am
by Phil White
Either work, but I would probably say "... scored from a mistake".

But again, unless the listener(s) know who made the mistake, we would give that information. And if I know that I am going to impart that information anyway, I doubt I would structure the information in that way: "Gerrard slipped and Chelsea went on to score." (Liverpool vs. Chelsea, 2014 - Gerrard's slip is often seen as having cost Liverpool the title that year.)

I and others here often say that we need the context to judge whether something is ambiguous or not. But the context of a football match is not sufficient. It is the entirety of the pragmatic context that resolves ambiguity. What exactly are we talking about? (You gave this above.) Who am I talking to? Do they generally understand the subject? (Football.) Do we have a common experience that resolves the ambiguity? (Did we watch the match together?) Has something else already been said that gives a clue to how the ambiguity is resolved? And so on. Utterances do not occur in a vacuum. Nobody walks into a room full of strangers and says "we scored from a mistake," and then walks out again.

Re: from a mistake

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:22 am
by navi
Thank you very much, Phil, for all your detailed and thoughtful replies,

I don't remember the match you are talking about. I might have watched it, but as I have a soft spot for Liverpool, and I like Gerrard very much, I might have simply repressed the upsetting memory of that match.

I do however remember the match against Milan. Liverpool were behind 3-0. I was about to turn off the TV. Then Gerrard scored. He went up, took the ball in his hands and let out what seemed to be a mighty shout (You couldn't hear him with all the noise there was). It was a rallying cry. It was at that moment that I realized Gerrard was a true leader. And it was at that moment that I decided not to turn off the TV. That match was heroic.

The football culture in Britain is very unique, I think. If you don't know football, you can't truly understand the culture of the country. Which team a person supports usually tells you a lot about them.

Thanks again.

Respectfully,
Navi

Re: from a mistake

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:17 pm
by Phil White
You can actually see the Anfield stadium from where I live (I can't, but that's a different matter). In terms of football support, you are either red or blue. But if you are red, you also have two different camps that you have to opt for. Either you think Gerrard was genuinely one of the best midfielders and captains of his generation or you believe that he was hyped up by the press and believed his own hype.

I am essentially a neutral, although I like to see Liverpool do well. So this means that I can sit on the fence on the Gerrard issue.

But there is nobody on Merseyside or in West London who does not know about "that Gerrard slip": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWs5z5n1sY

Re: from a mistake

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:08 pm
by navi
Thanks,

Actually the link you provided was geo-restricted, but I managed to find another clip of the slip. Painful to watch.

I wonder how widespread the red/blue thing is. Generally when you have derbies, one team is red and one is blue. Man-U are red and Man City are blue. You have the red/blue thing even in Tehran.

In Milan, you have Inter and Milan AC. Interestingly, there Milan AC are red and Inter are blue. One would expect the opposite.

As for Gerrard, I think he was a good player and a great leader, but I am no expert on the matter. I have stopped watching games, but can't resist the temptation to watch the highlights from time to time.

Thanks again.

We have gone way off topic!

Respectfully,
Navi