Newly poured

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Newly poured

Post by Stevenloan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:41 pm

Image

Hi everybody! Is it correct to say "This man shows a lack of social awareness when he rides his bike on this newly poured cement road"

Thanks a lot!

StevenLoan
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Shelley » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:13 pm

It's correct to say he's a frigging idiot.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Erik_Kowal » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:21 pm

He's certainly displaying inconsiderateness / antisocial behaviour / cluelessness / wilful destructiveness / stupidity, depending on the mix of his prevailing motivations and / or mental characteristics.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Phil White » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:36 pm

The title of the post suggests that Steven was asking about "newly poured" for the cement.

I would probably say "freshly concreted road" or possibly "freshly poured concrete road". I am not entirely sure what the difference between concrete and cement is, but I would use "concrete" when talking about a road.

Otherwise, I concur with Shelley.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Shelley » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pm

Stevenloan, the phrase "social awareness" is too broad to describe just what this person is lacking. Chiefly, he lacks any respect for the labor, time, and cost that others have put into laying the pavement, which indicates he has some "antisocial personality disorder." (That's what the docs say now, instead of calling a person a psycho- or sociopath, and apparently there's no cure.)

Unless the concrete was poured specifically for this stunt . . . was it?

P.S. Not sure, but I think a hyphen belongs in "newly-poured." Actually, Phil's "freshly poured" has a better ring to it.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Phil White » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 pm

Shelley wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pm
P.S. Not sure, but I think a hyphen belongs in "newly-poured."
I think that I can safely assume that most regulars here will know me to be largely accepting of changes that happen to our language. I may not like some of them or use them myself, but I will rarely use the terms "right" or "wrong" in respect of something that is in widespread use among native speakers.

That said, this one still makes me shudder. I really dislike seeing a hyphen between an adverb and adjective. Even if I put my pragmatic hat on, I can rarely see any benefit in it.

Without my permission, however, the practice of hyphenating compound qualifiers in the attributive position has become quite well established:
  • a 40-mm rod
  • the rod is 40 mm long
  • state-of-the-art facilities
  • the facilities are state of the art
In examples such as the above, I can often see the justification, particularly when the qualifier is long, such as "state-of-the-art", and I will often hyphenate in this way myself (but only in the attributive position).

But it has also become commonplace to see the hyphen between a qualifier that is made up of an adverb and an adjective:
  • Harry is well intentioned.
  • Harry is a well-intentioned person.
  • The concrete has been freshly poured.
  • The asshole has ridden through the freshly-poured concrete.
This is, of course, the case in the example Shelley questions. Personally, I can see no reason for the hyphen.

What really annoys me is to see this kind of hyphenation when the qualifier is in the predicative position. I regard all the following as incorrect, and have accordingly marked them with an asterisk:
  • *Harry is well-intentioned.
  • *The facilities are state-of-the-art.
  • *The concrete has been freshly-poured.
Aside from my own irritation, the style guides vary in respect of their guidance here. There seems to be some consensus on the fact that hyphens are not required between an adverb and an adjective (or participle) in the predicative position:
  • Sally is well educated.
Most also agree that the hyphen is not needed in the attributive position if the adverb ends in "-ly" (as in the example in question):
  • an astonishingly good book
  • freshly poured concrete
Some style guides favour the use of the hyphen in the attributive position after common "flat" adverbs (i.e. adverbs that do not end in "-ly" such as "well", "ill", "little" and " much"):
  • ill-fitting shoes
  • a much-loved dog
  • a well-respected politician (sorry, that's nonsense)
  • a well-respected linguist
I am out of step with common practice and many style guides on this last one, but I cannot bring myself to like it!

So, Shelley, the consensus of most folks is to use the hyphen in "freshly-poured concrete", but that is not the advice of most style guides, and you run the risk of incurring my wrath...
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Erik_Kowal » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:21 am

Phil White wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:38 pm
So, Shelley, the consensus of most folks is to use the hyphen in "freshly-poured concrete", but that is not the advice of most style guides, and you run the risk of incurring my wrath...
And that would definitely be a mistake.

:D
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Stevenloan » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:22 am

Shelley, Erik and Phil White : Thank you all very much for your help.

StevenLoan
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Re: Newly poured

Post by Shelley » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:22 pm

Erik_Kowal wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:21 am
And that would definitely be a mistake.
It's why I come here: to incur wrath and commit preemptive occurences of reality. Ok -- I get it, Phil ------ nix-on the super-fluous-dashes.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by trolley » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:45 pm

A well-written, thought-provoking explanation of our on-again, off again usage of the hyphen.
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Re: Newly poured

Post by tony h » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:36 pm

Personally I would go with : freshly laid concrete. I would use concrete rather than cement as, in the UK, concrete is the amalgam of products which may include, amongst others, cement, sand , stone and water.

I also wouldn't be too quick to judge the motorcyclist. I would at least want to know what signage and barriers had been put up to warn of the new surface. I don't imagine the motorcyclist was too keen on having to clean all that off his bike and clothes.
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Signature: tony

I'm puzzled therefore I think.

Re: Newly poured

Post by Stevenloan » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:40 pm

trolley and tony h : Thanks a lot for your input.

StevenLoan
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