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both sea and mountains

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:37 am
by STEVENSAKURA
- If Peter won the lottery, he would help handicapped children / disabled children. Besides, he would buy a multi-million dollar house for his parents where they can sea both sea and mountains.

- Are these ok to say? :)

Thanks so much!

StevenSakura

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:04 am
by Erik_Kowal
"...where they can see both sea and mountains."

Otherwise fine.

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:34 am
by Edwin F Ashworth
If Peter won the Lottery, he would use some of the money to help handicapped children. He would also buy a multi-million dollar house for his parents, with views of both the sea and the mountains.

(1) Lottery capitalised, as it is almost certainly a specific example.
(2) If it is important to distinguish between different categories of disadvantaged children, it is probably worth spending an extra sentence or two developing these differences.
(3) 'Besides' is usually only used to start a sentence in an almost conspiratorial, conversational tone, and/or with the meaning 'In any case', in British English.
(4) 'with views of' ties the attributes more closely with the house.
(5) Adding 'the' to sea and mountains makes them seem less clinical, more approachable.

But these are matters of style, Steven - as Erik says, your version is quite intelligible.

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:19 am
by russcable
Edwin F Ashworth wrote:(1) Lottery capitalised, as it is almost certainly a specific example.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Many lotteries are not called "Lottery". When (not if, when!) I win the lower-case lottery, the lottery involved will be either MegaMillions, Powerball, or Lotto Texas.

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:22 pm
by Edwin F Ashworth
There is a fairly lengthy monograph on Articles in the Collins Cobuild English Grammar series. Not that I've read it - I'm just indicating that there is a lot to consider when dealing with a/an and the.
If there are several lotteries available to not win money on, I'd use 'win money on one of the various lotteries', without capitals, as we're dealing with a generic term here.
There is a tendency to adopt a more or less synechdochic, usually in the sense of the general for a specific instance, or metonymic usage; here, the term is usually (though admittedly not always, and not consistently either) capitalised. eg:

Everton will top the League this year.
We're planning a night at the Opera (contrast cinema).
We went to the Races four times last year.
I'll never win the Lottery (I never buy a ticket).

I caught myself asking my dad some time ago:'Do you still go to the Jazz on Mondays?'

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:45 pm
by russcable
I'm not sure whether Everton is a person or a team, but I imagine Everton is only in one league (which may not have the word "league" in its name). Few places have more than one opera or racetrack. Even so, I don't see people capitalizing in that manner. By the same logic, why not "We're Planning a Night at the Opera" as it's a particular plan for a particular night. :)

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:52 pm
by Phil White
russcable wrote:I'm not sure whether Everton is a person or a team, but I imagine Everton is only in one league (which may not have the word "league" in its name).
Where I live, it's a religion, and not a team.

Re: both sea and mountains

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 pm
by Edwin F Ashworth
And apparently Fergie-time now refers back to Duncan.

And Russ: plans, nights etc are not generally capitalised (Thursday night, stag night, but Bonfire Night) whereas operas, horse-races, and lotteries big enough not to need a determiner other than the, usually are. It's the allusion to the bigger picture that I believe encourages capitalisation. I'd probably write: 'I saw it on the News', but would never write: 'Have you heard the News?'
It's by no means a black-and-white issue. If you examine the first 10 GHits for "do the pools" + win, you'll find pools, Pools (and Football) even after you've discounted capitalisation for unarguable proper nouns and headings.
Here where I live in Oldham, we have no cinema, no opera-house, and are equidistantish from several racecourses.

I've just done a Google search for "british coast" and found mainly 'British coast' but also 'British Coast' - again, I'd guess, capitalisation by association with words - here actually in the text - usually capitalised. Of course, most of the GHits for "night at the opera" seem to be for 'Night at the Opera' - no marx for guessing why.