paid out/ paid off

[russcable]

I'm not discussing linguistics here as I'm not competent to, but speaking from the point of view of an ESL learner I don't see a practical use of the grammatical framework in the part relating to verb complementation that H&P put forward.

Here's the problem as I see it. You ARE discussing linguistics in a way entirely apart from "an ESL learner" or even any of the ESL teachers that I know. You can either learn English, or you can become a linguistics professor with Quirk et al, but doing both at the same time isn't working out for you.

[dante]

I beg to disagree russcable :)

[dante]

Hello,

I guess I'm going to be the first one on this forum (or maybe even in the history of forums) that is going to quote himself :).I feel like a pioneer in this honestly.
I'll have to take back what I said in my previous post here:

I recently bought Huddleston's "A Student's Introduction to English Grammar" and it was a wrong investment for a few reasons :).

and this too:

I haven't read it thoroughly so it's still possible that I'll gain some insights on more careful reading of it (chances are slim though).

and this:

but I can say that traditional grammars were more user-friendly reading and had more practical use for me than modern grammars seem to have.

and much of the rest what I said about the value of H&P grammatical concepts so far.The more I read their "A Student's Introduction .." the more I'm taken with their elaboration of grammar points.

I'd comment on your comment again russcable:

You ARE discussing linguistics in a way entirely apart from "an ESL learner" or even any of the ESL teachers that I know. You can either learn English, or you can become a linguistics professor with Quirk et al, but doing both at the same time isn't working out for you.

People learn in different ways that's for sure and no one can say there's one best method of learning a foreign language.For me,learning English grammar and learning the English language go together just fine.I may be an exception with delving into grammar points in too much details but I don't have a problem with being an exception:)

Also,the grammar points I brought up here are dealt with in ESL grammar books,intended for people studying English as a foreign language and native speakers who want to know about the structure of English from the non-technical (non-linguistic) point of view.On the cover of "A Student's Introduction..", the most advanced grammar I've read so far,it is noted: "It is intended for the students in colleges or universities who have little or no previous background in grammar and requires no prior knowledge of linguistics"

Huddleston&Pullum state this in the preface of their grammar:

"We believe that every educated person in the English-speaking world should know something about the details of the grammar of English". (follow the reasons they state for such an opinion)

Although it's only an opinion of the authors who live of selling grammar books and they couldn't be expected to say that grammar is a subject for idle people for example,it's still obvious that many people, with no active knowledge of grammar, have prejudices regarding the purpose of grammar. In my opinion grammar is not useless subject and not so dry subject as it may seem to some.

Anyway,H&P are a little bit of freaks for sure,can't drop the subject even at lunchtime and they put it in the preface of the book:

When working at our offices and meeting for lunchtime discussions we usually found that we would have at least one entirely new discovery to talk about over sandwiches.

[Edwin F Ashworth]

Erik wrote:
The only occurrence which springs to my mind and is possibly similar is that of Gordon the Big Engine.... Whenever he got furious about some slight to his dignity and vowed revenge on the guilty party, he had a tendency to exclaim "I'll pay him out!"
It looks like it will soon be pay-back time for Gordon the Big Engine and his guilty party.

[Erik_Kowal]

Don't you mean 'pay-out time'?

If he loses the election, he'll doubtless be invited to sit on the boards of numerous enterprises and spin a pretty penny or two on the overpriced-lecture circuit.

[Edwin F Ashworth]

You may well be reading the signals correctly Erik, but Alistair Darling is said to be against buffer funds.

[PhilHunt]

In Quirk's terminology, "pay off" is a phrasal verb (I'll stick my neck out and say "always").

I'm going to be pedantic here Phil :) What do you think of the usage of 'paid off' in this sentence?

"Not wanting the other crew member to see how much greater my salary was to theirs, I was paid off the boat on dry land while the others remained aboard. The captain placed two big piles of money on the shore. I got paid off the biggest pile, while the rest would be paid off the smaller one."

;)

[Edwin F Ashworth]

I would say your timbers need shivering.