comma with vocative
comma with vocative
This is my first contribution. The members seem to be a friendly bunch, so here goes.
Aged seventy-something, and always ready to move with the times, I am puzzled over the way I feel about using a comma with the vocative. This crops up most often when I am starting an informal email. Many years ago, I'd have put 'Hi, John', or 'Thanks for this, John.' (Had it been very many years, of course, I would not have written 'Hi' at all.) Now, against all principles and logic, I feel that the comma is no longer acceptable usage. I should be grateful for others' views on this.
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Aged seventy-something, and always ready to move with the times, I am puzzled over the way I feel about using a comma with the vocative. This crops up most often when I am starting an informal email. Many years ago, I'd have put 'Hi, John', or 'Thanks for this, John.' (Had it been very many years, of course, I would not have written 'Hi' at all.) Now, against all principles and logic, I feel that the comma is no longer acceptable usage. I should be grateful for others' views on this.
Signature: spud
comma with vocative
Interesting! Hadn't noticed that I've been doing this but now that you ask, yes, I realise that I don't put a comma between the Hi and the John, and a quick scan through my inbox reveals that this is the norm - or at least among those I correspond with. The only ones who don't start their email to me with "Hi Meirav" are those who start it more formally with "Dear Meirav", but those are few and far between.
Glad you think we're a friendly bunch here - we do have our moments though
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Glad you think we're a friendly bunch here - we do have our moments though

comma with vocative
So in your informal emails (which, of course, defy all conventions of punction and capitalization), you're writing:
thanks for this john
Evidentally, the person you're writing to recently gave you a new fixture for your loo or referred a new client for your job as a sex worker.
(^_^)
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thanks for this john
Evidentally, the person you're writing to recently gave you a new fixture for your loo or referred a new client for your job as a sex worker.
(^_^)
comma with vocative
No, if I was thanking John I would say "thanks, John". In my posting I was referring only to the "Hi John" part.
Of course if I was buying a loo part from someone I would use the much more formal "Dear John".
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Of course if I was buying a loo part from someone I would use the much more formal "Dear John".

comma with vocative
Well, your name is John. 
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comma with vocative
John, I wonder if Louis feels the same. (???)
_________________
Ken - May 17, 2007
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_________________
Ken - May 17, 2007
comma with vocative
Welcome, spud. You have plunged right in and stirred up more toilet-humor.
The WW learning-curve leads to extrapolative pre-meditation.
.....................................................................
(It's tomorrow, Ken)
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The WW learning-curve leads to extrapolative pre-meditation.
.....................................................................
(It's tomorrow, Ken)
comma with vocative
The comma has gone the way of capitalzation and spelling. I receive emails with all caps and feel like they are yelling, or all small letters and it is almost a riddle between words and names.
This is just lazy.
As an Barbershop singer, I appreciate a comma so I know to breath!
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This is just lazy.
As an Barbershop singer, I appreciate a comma so I know to breath!
Signature: Harry Sargent
comma with vocative
Hear, hear!
Ever hear Spike Jones yell to the singer holding the note for the very long time, "Turn the page, ya fathead!!"?
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Ever hear Spike Jones yell to the singer holding the note for the very long time, "Turn the page, ya fathead!!"?
comma with vocative
Truly. The absence of punctuation these days is getting absurd. With all the (internet) opportunities for people to make their writing public, it's really easy to see the effect of the lack of education in this area. You see these solid blocks of text: run-on sentences with no periods or commas, authored by "i".
In the USA, a 25-minute, essay-writing section has been added to the SAT exam (entrance exam required in the college admissions process). Its purpose, one might imagine, is to measure the average high-school Junior's ability to compose a simple sentence. It was added about two years ago, so colleges are still trying to figure out how to evaluate this section.
I do use a comma after "hi" (as in Hi, Ms. Truss), but I'm not rigid about it -- it doesn't bother me if the comma's missing in this case. It does bother me when the lack of a comma (or any punctuation) causes me to misunderstand the meaning of a sentence and therefore have to go back and read it again.
By the way, it's more than simple laziness, in my opinion. I think the law of "whatever the market will allow" is working here, along with the law of entropy. As people accept "bad" language, punctuation, spelling, etc., those things become the norm, and things tend to fall apart. And yes, it's definitely work to use the extra brain power and time to apply the rules of grammer and punctuation. Those that do, however, will get favorable attention (at the high-school level, anyway).
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In the USA, a 25-minute, essay-writing section has been added to the SAT exam (entrance exam required in the college admissions process). Its purpose, one might imagine, is to measure the average high-school Junior's ability to compose a simple sentence. It was added about two years ago, so colleges are still trying to figure out how to evaluate this section.
I do use a comma after "hi" (as in Hi, Ms. Truss), but I'm not rigid about it -- it doesn't bother me if the comma's missing in this case. It does bother me when the lack of a comma (or any punctuation) causes me to misunderstand the meaning of a sentence and therefore have to go back and read it again.
By the way, it's more than simple laziness, in my opinion. I think the law of "whatever the market will allow" is working here, along with the law of entropy. As people accept "bad" language, punctuation, spelling, etc., those things become the norm, and things tend to fall apart. And yes, it's definitely work to use the extra brain power and time to apply the rules of grammer and punctuation. Those that do, however, will get favorable attention (at the high-school level, anyway).
comma with vocative
An example someone else copied from somewhere else to someplace else:
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Dear Jack,
I want a man who knows what love is all about.
You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who
are not like you admit to being useless and inferior.
You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you.
I have no feelings whatsoever when we’re apart.
I can be forever happy – will you let me be yours?
Jill
Dear Jack
I want a man who knows what love is.
All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful
people, who are not like you. Admit to being
useless and inferior. You have ruined me.
For other men I yearn! For you I have no feelings
whatsoever. When we’re apart I can be forever
happy. Will you let me be?
Yours,
Jill
comma with vocative
Hah! I've never seen this, russcable! Just shows to go ya' . . .
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comma with vocative
Dolly will always demand a comma on being greeted. Starshine, never. Young lovers, sometimes.
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comma with vocative
I think that people tend to leave out the comma because they don't have the confidence to include one. To miss one out is an understandable error of laziness or oversight. To include one where there should not be one is to expose all your failings of grammatical competence and to diminish your position in society. The omission can be dismissed by the scribe but leaves a problem with the understanding by the reader.
I go for the comma (usually).
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I go for the comma (usually).
Signature: tony
I'm puzzled therefore I think.
I'm puzzled therefore I think.
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