Poplollies and Bellibones

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Poplollies and Bellibones

Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:10 am

A couple of corrections are in order, I think: The Vikings certainly DID colonise Scotland; they settled the east and north coasts of England plus Scotland (including the three offshore archipelagos [Orkneys, Hebrides, Shetland Isles]), and Ireland. However, I can't comment usefully on the origin of 'darg' - I ultracrepidate too often as it is.

Sidney was the first to mention 'hadavist' (Danish: 'Havde jeg vidst', but pronounced not too dissimilarly to the way the archaic English word is spelt); Leif was the first to mention 'hardavist', which is presumably a typo.
Reply from Erik Kowal (Reading - England)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:25 am

Erik - I bow to your greater knowledge of things Viking. My interest in them is in their effect on the English language, not the broader cultural and historic aspects. Oh, yes, and a word of advise about that ultracrepidation thing my friend. Just look at what happened to me when I did it.

I've had another look at the OED and found 'hadiwist' or 'had-I-wist' meaning as Sidney pointed out, 'If only I'd known' - a vain regret, or the heedlessness or loss of opportunity which leads to it. So, taking the second form of the term we get had + I + wist. The 'had' and the 'I' are pretty straight forward, which just leaves 'wist'. It turns out that this is a corrruption of 'wis', meaning 'to make known, give information of, indicate; esp. to show, point out (the way)' or 'to show the way to (a person); to direct, guide; to lead, conduct (lit. or fig.)'. The word is definitely Old English in origin. But that in itself doesn't invalidate Leif's assumption as the Scandinavian languages and Old English come under the umbrella of Germanic languages and could therefore be cognates.
Reply from Doug Gilbert (Chai Yi - Taiwan)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:39 am

Quite right, Erik! Somehow an "r" crept into "hadavist." They can be almost as pesky as "uu's," so I should be more alert!

Doug's explication of "wis" makes sense and to make further confusion in the issue could also stem from the Norwegian/Danish verb "vise" meaning to show. As to the Germanic origins or brolly, Doug is correct. I must display my ignorance or rapidly diminishing capacity to recall things of which I once had "half-vast" knowledge. How did the Germanic roots creep into the English language? The Jutes? Early German tourist groups? Also what is all this extreme crepidation from you two? I can find "crepitate" or "decrepitude" (to which I can relate personally), but no sign in my F&W of this ultra-thingee you keep bandying about in such a ostentatious fashion. Perhaps this is at a WW level to which I am not yet elegible to reach?
Reply from Leif Thorvaldson (Eatonville - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:53 am

How do the roots of anything creep anywhere - through dark, secret, nefarious means. And I personally find it's better for my peace of mind not to speculate on such convoluted matters.
Reply from Doug Gilbert (Chai Yi - Taiwan)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:08 am

I find your enthusiastic bantering over words long forgotten very enthralling! (The words are most delicious as well!)
I am looking forward to enjoyable task of learning more about my favorite subject from this deletable club!

HATTWW

Reply from Kim Jones (Blackfoot - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:22 am

Kim, I do hope this club is not deletable, I'd hate to log in one day and find that it's gone - disappeared off the face of the virtual earth - I'm weeping already at the thought of this dreadful prospect, I can't go on as my keyboard is flooded...

And what is HATT?
Reply from Meirav Barkan (London - England)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:37 am

I too am puzzled at this latest abbreviation to erupt here - perhaps it stands for 'Heaving and throbbing tremendously, Word Wizards'.

Reagarding the definition of 'ultracrepidate':

My Chambers 20th Century Dictionary, Leif, gives the following entertaining definition and etymology:

"To criticise beyond the sphere of one's knowledge; 'ultracrepidarian' (n & adj). [From Appelles's answer to the cobbler who went on from criticising the sandals in a picture to finding fault with the leg, 'ne sutor ultra crepidam', 'the cobbler must not go beyond the sandal']."
Reply from Erik Kowal (Reading - England)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:51 am

Meirav, It appears, as I tried to convey my rapture for this site, I forgot the "c" in delectable, thus changing
it to deletable. A horrible mistake when you think of the possible consequences! Once again, I beg your pardon. As for the Acronym, HATTWW, it's "Hopeless Addicted To The Written Word".
Thanks for humoring me!
Reply from Kim Jones (Blackfoot - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:05 am

Ah Kim, in that case I am also HATTWW - though I am also rather HATWW.

Thanx Erik for the insight into this wonderful word, I shall add "ultracrepidation" to the "very useful indeed" section in my vocab, and use it next time someone talks cobblers!
Reply from Meirav Barkan (London - England)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:20 am

Erik, I am fascinated by this ultracrepidation and its definition. It sounds so much more sinister than it really is. I too am HATTWW which I didn't know, but I think it is really more a case of being hopelessly addicted to words. I relish them, written, spoken, sung, whispered, imagined, invented, translated. . . I must say I was relieved to hear that WW was delectable for it is definitely NOT deletable or I shall mourn for all my days. As for that Germanic creeping, we're just creepy and proud of it. We take root wherever we can!
Reply from Sabine Harmann (Elkhorn, WI - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:34 am

Alas, I've found what seems to be an error in the Poplollies book - it claims 'paronomasia' is archaic, but if it was, it is making a serious comeback! If you have an excessive fear of puns, is that paranoimasia?
Reply from Sidney Blackburn (London - Canada)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:49 am

Erik: Sorry to be so delinquent in reading this thread. Thank you for the definition. As to the "heaving and throbbing" perhaps that occurred when the cobbler had to prepare women's footwear that extended well above the ankle. Weren't there all sorts of heaving and throbbing busoms during that time frame? Perhaps that was later during the Victorian era. Maybe that is why Meirav is so excited to try it on her cobbler e.g., "Don't you ultracrepidate me, you cretin!"
Reply from Leif Thorvaldson (Eatonville - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:03 am

Oops! Been so long that I've even forgotten how to spell one! I meant bosom, but now even that one looks wrong. Ah well, the ultradecrepitude of advancing years!
Reply from Leif Thorvaldson (Eatonville - U.S.A.)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:17 am

I don't know about you Sidney, but my biggest fear is Peniaphobia, followed closely by Arachibutyrophobia.
Reply from Doug Gilbert (Chai Yi - Taiwan)
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Post by Archived Reply » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:32 am

Personally, I have Dentophobia and share your Peniaphobia. As to the other, I've always wondered - does it extend to Reese's Peanut Butter Cups?


Reply from Sidney Blackburn (London - Canada)
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