Correct usage of Arabic names

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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Topic » Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:05 am

Can anyone help me with this one? I am working on a press release about the new MD of a subsidiary in the UAE. His full name is Abdullah Salahuddin Yasin, and I have introduced him as such in the first sentence. Through the remaining text, I wish to use a shorter form of reference. Would, for instance, "Mr. Yasin" be acceptable?

I have, however, seen the gentleman referred to simply as Abdullah Salahuddin in other documents. Would "Mr. Salahuddin" therefore be acceptable?

Unfortunately, I have no access to the person concerned to be able to ask.

Any help would be appreciated.
Submitted by Phil White (Munich - Germany)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:20 am

Phil, there are two parts to your question. First, the second part of the name, Salahuddin, would be Abdullah's father's name. It is very common in the Arab culture for the children to have their father's name. I have not heard of some one being addressed by their second name. This does not mean that it does not happen in the UAE, however I doubt it very much. Second, I think either Mr.Yasin or Mr.Abdullah Yasin would be proper. My choice would be the latter as it is more commonly used.
Ahmed
8th of June,2004
Reply from Ahmed ELNamer (Dawson Creek - Canada)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:34 am

Ahmed,

Thank you very much. I was rather hoping you'd have an eye on this thread!

It is quite possible that the two places I have seen where the gentleman's name was given as "Abdullah Salahuddin" were incorrect (company website).

Incidentally, I know several colleagues from the UK who also have their father's name as a middle name. Our family did it the other way round; I was given my father's middle name as my first name and my grandfather's surname as my middle name!

Phil
Reply from Phil White (Munich - Germany)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:49 am

Ahmed, It is also interesting to note that English middle names are often last names of grandparents as is the case with my son, Scott Wilkins Greenwald. The Presidents Bush have Walker in the their middle names after George Herbert Walker, Bush senior’s maternal grandfather, with the elder Bush taking the whole thing, George Herbert Walker Bush, and Bush the lesser taking less! And many women, such as Hillary Rodham Clinton (Hillary Diane Rodham), often use as their middle name their surname before marriage.
__________________

Ken G – June 8, 2004

Reply from Ken Greenwald (Fort Collins, CO - U.S.A.)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:03 am

Since we're taking a little tour around the naming conventions of the world, this seems like a good moment to mention that Russian names too have traditionally relied on a patronymic naming system, e.g. Aleksandr Sergeyevich Pushkin's father was named Sergei.

All his children would thus have borne his first name as their patronym (Sergeyevich for boys, Sergeyevna for girls).

In Denmark, a different patronymic format was used in which, until the naming system was reformed in the 19th century, the father's first name became his offspring's surname. For instance, Peder Jensen's children might have been called Hans, Ole and Gerda Pedersen. Hans and Ole's children would have respectively Hansen and Olsen as their surnames, and their sister Gerda's children would have borne a surname formed from her husband's father's first name.

Not surprisingly, this convention has made tracing family lineages in Scandinavia quite a complicated undertaking, especially since the traditional repertoire of names in an overwhelmingly agrarian society was pretty limited in the first place.
Reply from Erik Kowal ( - England)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:17 am

It all makes "Baudouin Le Lépreux" seem a humane and simple way of distinguishing individuals.

Phil the Shortarse
Reply from Phil White (Munich - Germany)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:32 am

The modern Greek naming system is pretty much the same as in Russia. The "middle name" is called 'onoma patros,' i.e. father's name. Thus Spiros Georgiou Papadopoulos is Spiros, the son of Georgios Papadopoulos. His wife's name may be Maria Papadopoulou, i.e. Maria, wife of Papadopoulos. Their son may be named Yannis Spirou Papadopoulos etc.. No son ever has the same first name as his father.
By the way, the name of my humble self is another case. There Joerg is not a middle name but part of a double first name, just like Lou in Mary-Lou. In other words, my parents called me Hans Joerg not only when I was a bad boy.
Reply from Hans Joerg Rothenberger (Walenstadt - Switzerland)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:46 am

Oh, Hans Joerg, I'm sure you were never bad! Only 'behaviourally misdirected'!
Reply from Erik Kowal ( - England)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:01 am

Phil, And Baldwin’s children, who were later exiled to Ireland were, of course, known as ‘Lepercons.’
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Ken G – June 9, 2004

Reply from Ken Greenwald (Fort Collins, CO - U.S.A.)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:15 am

Ken,

I am eternally grateful for the comma after "Phil" in the above. It threw me for a moment...


Reply from Phil White (Munich - Germany)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:29 am

Hans(-)Joe(ö?)rg,

But why such hyphenlessness and umlautlessness? Swiss orthography?
Reply from Phil White (Munich - Germany)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:44 am

Erik, when I was being a bad boy that was called being a bad boy, no "subordinationally challenged" PC bulls..t.
Phil, since proper names in German speaking areas may have several first names but no middle name, we are more or less free to hyphenate them or not. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart has never had a hyphen, but he has always been called Wolfgang Amadeus, never just Wolfgang, let alone Wolfgang A.. As for oe instead of ö in my name - in the first place I wasn't sure if the text editor of this forum was able to handle the umlaut. Obviously it is, although, as you may have noticed, it sometimes makes quite a mess out of pasted text with non-English characters. In my e-mail correspondence with native English speakers I always write Joerg in order to avoid all those strange phenomena that can happen to an umlaut on American 'puters. See http://mypage.bluewin.ch/haro/about/about.htm for further info on my name.
Reply from Hans Joerg Rothenberger (Walenstadt - Switzerland)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:58 am

That might explain why my father, born in Vienna, Austria has no middle name. It doesn't explain why my father-in-law, born in Chalfont St Peter, England also has no middle name...
Reply from Simon Beck (London - England)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:13 am

Simon, yes to your first sentence. In German-speaking areas a person can have one or several first names, one of which usually being the "Rufname," i.e. the name the person is called by. No of those first names, no matter how many there are, has a function similar to the one of an English middle name.
As for your second sentence, however, I don't know either, since my relations in English-speaking countries are mainly American.
A friend of a friend of mine, whose name is, say, Peter Stettler (real name withhelb by request), often travels to Canada. Time and again he has had difficulties because he has nothing to write in the field "Middle Name" of various forms. So, when in Canada, he now calls himself Peter S. Stettler - "S." standing for "Space."
Reply from Hans Joerg Rothenberger (Walenstadt - Switzerland)
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Correct usage of Arabic names

Post by Archived Reply » Tue Jan 01, 2002 8:27 am

Which reminds me... what did the "S" in Harry S Truman stand for?
Reply from Harikrishnan Menon (Mumbai - India)
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